Curse

cormac ap dunn · Jun 04, 2010, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzerman

I just wanted to point out what I think it was a bit of inconsistency in Anet's (and some players') gameplay philosophy here: they think it's OK to punish the people who found a way around the PvE grind just the same with real PvP cheaters. If Anet indeed had the means to make the distinction between the two types of botters (PvE-only vs. any PvP) I would say it was quite unfair for them not to reflect that moral distinction into the penalties they applied. It just made me question their whole policy against botting in PvE -- especially now that simple [bottable] farms are not that profitable in terms of wealth accumulation (and they could easily limit it further).

I don't see any distinction between PvE botters and PvP botters, and here is why. PvP botters do so as a means to compete with actual players of skill, either to gain titles or to grief or to simply win WITHOUT using said skill. PvE botters do so as a means to compete with actual players, either to acquire titles, to gain wealth that competes with or exceeds people who worked for it, or to gain items that are statistically the same as non "Rare" items WITHOUT using said skill or the needed time.

Both types of botter share a few common traits. One that stands out most prominently is the desire to compete with other players who attained these desired end effects legitimately. As you so accurately stated, not having certain titles can effect your ability to get into certain groups.

My solution is exactly the same as the basis for the game, its called Guild Wars, not Set Groups That Dictate What Build I Should Run Wars. If you feel you cannot get into DoA with these elitist groups, try a GUILD. If you still feel that getting a title is important try gaining it with a GUILD. To grindy for you? Try a NEW GAME.

But lets not transpose your desire to cheat as some noble desire to remain in the status quo. Its a desire to compete with people who posses the skill and time to achieve those things, without putting in the time or effort(PvP botters anyone?). We call that cheating my friend, Arenanet calls it that too. How do you deal with a cheater, you don't allow them to cheat. Right now, bans are an effective way to do that, simple, clean, and effective.

Ka Tet · Jun 05, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzerman

Actually I think this makes sense -- to give a 2nd chance and a clean slate to a player after Anet firmly showed that they could catch him/her. It looks very forgiving, and it just happens to help the business, so why not?

Did you notice that the GWCA project was essentially shut down by this mass ban? Mission accomplished, gg Anet. I am pretty sure that many, if not most of those who used GWCA and got banned for it will not try to use it again with their new accounts, exactly because they just learned that they could get banned for it, the hard way. So why not allow them to start fresh?

I am also pretty sure that the same "corrective" effect would have been obtained if they just suspended those accounts for a while instead of permanently banning them. But in that case there would be no profit for Anet, of course..

I'm not saying I'm against second chances. I'm also not saying I'm for bans. But, if you say someones behavior deserved a lifetime ban, and you enforce that against everyone. Then say oh but if you throw us some money all is well, you basically just ripped off all of the parties involved.

Ka Tet · Jun 05, 2010, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Nothing anyone does in PVE has an effect on anyone else's ability to play the game. I can't believe I saw someone make reference to the competitive nature of PVE.

JoeKnowMo · Jun 05, 2010, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

Nothing anyone does in PVE has an effect on anyone else's ability to play the game. I can't believe I saw someone make reference to the competitive nature of PVE.

PvE has an economy and if you're aware of that it should answer your concern.

You think the server rollbacks have been for funz?

Firebaall · Jun 05, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

Nothing anyone does in PVE has an effect on anyone else's ability to play the game. I can't believe I saw someone make reference to the competitive nature of PVE.

When a botter and a regular player want to buy the same item that's up for trade, who do you think has the advantage?

When a botter has 14 stacks of cupcakes for sale, and regular player has 2....who do you think can afford to drop the price first?

The economy is part of the game.

Do everyone a favour, and think outside of your self justification, and you might start to see why you're so wrong.

Zebideedee · Jun 05, 2010, 12:53 AM // 00:53

2 stacks, christ, thats a lot to me, I got 184-ish and thought I was doing well (boring method of just playing), guess I shoulda worn a tartan shirt, dungarees, and said "Ooo-ar" more. Not having a license to drive a tractor also sucks.

Funny thing is, some guildies whinged about how bored they were of farming, thats just a big old scratch of the noggin' for me. If it bores you, don't do it!

cosmic correction · Jun 05, 2010, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

When a botter and a regular player want to buy the same item that's up for trade, who do you think has the advantage?

When a botter has 14 stacks of cupcakes for sale, and regular player has 2....who do you think can afford to drop the price first?

The economy is part of the game.

Do everyone a favour, and think outside of your self justification, and you might start to see why you're so wrong.

14 stacks is really not much for ppl whos been in GW for many years - most of the ppl i know goes back form 3-5 years and can buy a stack of cupcake for 6-7 ectos when in season - to have MONEY in GW doesnt mean you have to been botting , some have played a long time and had thier drops fair and square and traded back and forth - bad example - yes of course the ones who got 14 stacks but 14 stacks for a serious player in fow uw and doa doesnt last long - 6 months max if you play every day a few h -so if you have 14 stacks or more you must been botting - or could it be you have played gw a long time and have perhaps also been given some over the years so you got so much money you can actually afford to give stacks of ectos away in gifts to others you like or want to help in the game - 14 stacks of cupcakes is peanuts for older gw ppl its 2 armbaces which u can make in 4-5 doa runs. economy is part of the game yes, but its not essential for the game play to have - but as in real life as in a game ppl like to have the new trend and have enough to "survive the winter" buying up cupcakes

*Darcy* · Jun 05, 2010, 01:38 AM // 01:38

No one is saying that all the wealthy players are botters. There are the in-game traders who spend their time buying and selling items and amassing wealth in the meantime (the original multi-account players) and the people who have gotten very lucky with chest drops (end chests and zaishen) to name two types. With close to 7 million accounts activated, 3,700 blocked is a drop in the bucket.

Taking those accounts away won't have a large effect on the GW economy, but it has had a great effect on player morale.

Lord Sojar · Jun 05, 2010, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Instead of reposting this here, I'll just give you all a link to read it.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=308

If I came across as self-righteous before, it was only in satire. The facts are simple, and straightforward. Those that refuse to accept them are just going to writhe in their own denial and not get anywhere.

If you honestly believe you were banned wrongly, contact support. They will either review your case again, a few times, and determine that you didn't really violate the rules, or they will uphold the ban, and you will be in no different a position than you were before you sent the ticket.

However, if you botted, you did cheat. You will not find sympathy here, or with support. You have lost the respect of Arena Net and of the community. You are the very definition of a cheater.

And just for those cheaters wondering about your Hall of Monuments and names in Guild Wars 2...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Correct. As originally stated in 2007, the fact remains (confirmed today) that banned or terminated Guild Wars (game) accounts cannot be linked to Guilds Wars 2. The NCsoft Master Account is outside the game account itself and shouldn't influence linkage between internal Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 elements

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Can you tell me why in Dwayna's name we'd show someone the extra consideration of never letting his name be used to Guild Wars 2? Name reservation is a special privilege, not a right. And those who get banned in Guild Wars deserve no special privileges in Guild Wars 2, only the privilege of coming back without being summarily banned. I do believe in a clean slate. I do not believe in locking up names for people who have lost, through their own choices, any special or personal future considerations.

Aciid Bu5t0r · Jun 05, 2010, 07:27 PM // 19:27

O lol they caught me too. 4 years of legit gameplay, not even 2 months of botting (pve, just some raptor farming and such) and I receive a litetime ban. But I'm not going to QQ as I knew and accepted the dangers behind breaking rules.

gg Aciid Bustor, 29 max titles and a 1000 platinum storage. It sure was a fun ride, but every good song has an end.

Firebaall · Jun 05, 2010, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Nice bow out, Aciid.

I don't agree with what you did, but my hat's off to you for being a man about it. That can't be said for many here trying to justify what they did.

cormac ap dunn · Jun 05, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Good job manning up Aciid! Not an easy thing to do, but at least you know when you were in the wrong. On the positive side, you could try a new account and get something started for GW2.

pterodactyl · Jun 05, 2010, 10:28 PM // 22:28

it warms the cockles of my icy heart to see all of the botters hit with a ban. that'll show those hooligans who's boss! *shakes fist*

the way i see it, i'm dirt poor because i'm lazy. i'm not gonna farm. if someone wants to farm, good for them, they deserve (obviously) all the rewards + titles. the correlation between rewards and personal time is what drives the pve aspect. as personal time is put in, more rewards are given. you can't put in half the time with a bot and expect to get as much as people who are putting in that time honestly, hate to burst your troll bubble.

Shasgaliel · Jun 08, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

It is quite special that there are still people who are mature enough to admit they did wrong and go over their mistake. I think it is admirable and it is quite uncommon - threads are really full of lame excuses and lies and probably still a lot of posts were removed by mods. I am happy that people unable to take responsibility for their actions were removed from the game I hope I will never meet them again in gw or any other. I hope more like those will meet Dhuum. I actually feel pity only for those who did wrong and are able to admit it and learned their lesson. Those I would actually like to see again in game.

On a side note quite a lot of guru trolls got hit by a ban. Some of them I saw writing in their posts stuff like "learn to play the game or stop to fail etc" (no to me but mostly to a new players) usually worded in a less appreciated way. I am happy I was never good at gw and thus all my accounts remain not banned.

I am quite surprised that there are so many apologets for the people who did botting. What is even more surprising they have no problems at writing crap about Anet and people who did not bot including insults and personal attacks. On the other hand any word against botters is for them a sign of immaturity etc. I think botting should be banned and stigmatized (not sure if this is the right word) and not excused. The more flaming on botters the less people will be inclined to bot. I hope people got a clear signal from Anet and will not try to bot in any of the gw.

Last remark regarding comments like "I got banned I will not buy gw2 etc" - I certainly hope you keep your word. I am not going for gw2 due to a lack of time but I hope all my guildies who do will not have to deal with botters there.

EDIT: changed unbanned to not-banned since I was never banned nor there was a reason for it.

Martin Alvito · Jun 08, 2010, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

I am happy I was never good at gw and thus all my accounts remain unbanned.

In fairness, we didn't see players like Tommy getting banned. If you were falsely banned, I hope that ANet reconsiders their stance. If not, you deserve what you got for using a crutch.

windtalker · Jun 08, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

It is quite special that there are still people who are mature enough to admit they did wrong and go over their mistake. I think it is admirable and it is quite uncommon - threads are really full of lame excuses and lies and probably still a lot of posts were removed by mods. I am happy that people unable to take responsibility for their actions were removed from the game I hope I will never meet them again in gw or any other. I hope more like those will meet Dhuum. I actually feel pity only for those who did wrong and are able to admit it and learned their lesson. Those I would actually like to see again in game.

On a side note quite a lot of guru trolls got hit by a ban. Some of them I saw writing in their posts stuff like "learn to play the game or stop to fail etc" (no to me but mostly to a new players) usually worded in a less appreciated way. I am happy I was never good at gw and thus all my accounts remain unbanned.

I am quite surprised that there are so many apologets for the people who did botting. What is even more surprising they have no problems at writing crap about Anet and people who did not bot including insults and personal attacks. On the other hand any word against botters is for them a sign of immaturity etc. I think botting should be banned and stigmatized (not sure if this is the right word) and not excused. The more flaming on botters the less people will be inclined to bot. I hope people got a clear signal from Anet and will not try to bot in any of the gw.

Last remark regarding comments like "I got banned I will not buy gw2 etc" - I certainly hope you keep your word. I am not going for gw2 due to a lack of time but I hope all my guildies who do will not have to deal with botters there.

You have to admit for people who were unjustly banned, it is quite frustrating to have all of your hard work go "up in smoke." Especially when you can't even get in contact with Arenanet support to discuss the ban. That in and of itself would make any reasonable player less likely to purchase GW2, right?

Shasgaliel · Jun 08, 2010, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by windtalker

You have to admit for people who were unjustly banned, it is quite frustrating to have all of your hard work go "up in smoke." Especially when you can't even get in contact with Arenanet support to discuss the ban. That in and of itself would make any reasonable player less likely to purchase GW2, right?

Right. Sure I do agree.

I was locked out of GW for weeks due to my ISP having its IP range blacklisted as an open proxy. I was one of those temporarily blocked for the credit card error on the NCsoft side. Being perma-banned unjustly must be extremely frustrating. That I understand. However I am not aware of any case of those 3700 as a unjust ban so far. We have peoples perception of their own actions against quite clear EULA. If someone thinks he was banned unjustly it does not mean it was really like that. Quite a lot of cases were proven guilty by Gaile while here those people wrote peans about their innocence. If someone is innocent I believe he/she will get his/hers account(s) back. I am afraid it will just take a lot of time due to support being swamped with requests and sending automated responses all the time. Till I see someone stating that he had his/hers account unbanned then I will tend to believe people claiming unjust ban. So far we have testimonials of people against a script working on a selected and quite broad list of symptoms. At the moment I tend to believe script accuracy more.

I also think that this is just the beginning. When we were revoking domain names at my company we did it in badges. Meaning similar cases at one go. Then after support load went back to normal, another round of revocations of similar magnitude. If ANET anticipated the possible support load after those bans (it seems they did since they had templates ready for example) we might see another round of bans coming soon.

I did not mean to offend anyone but I have to admit I stopped pvp due to botting and now I am back there again.

EDIT: Actually there is one case I would consider an unjust ban - 2 people playing at the same pc. One of them uses bot - both get banned. However such case could be used as an excuse for people botting on alt non-linked account. In such case I would unban the non-botting person providing there were no one way transfers of loot stuff between accounts.

aesgan · Jun 15, 2010, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I did not read over 49 pages of this thread but I considered posting my experience.
I've been coming to GW ocasionally to check on gifts and today I found out I've been banned.

I've never done anything wrong, I don't have multiple accounts, I don't bot, I don't buy or sell gold... and I'm waiting for support to respond to my ticket.

Regards

Bob Slydell · Jun 15, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesgan

I did not read over 49 pages of this thread but I considered posting my experience.
I've been coming to GW ocasionally to check on gifts and today I found out I've been banned.

I've never done anything wrong, I don't have multiple accounts, I don't bot, I don't buy or sell gold... and I'm waiting for support to respond to my ticket.

Regards

If you've never botted and this is all you've done, chances are it was a rare mistake that you were banned or you were hacked and then banned as a result to "protect your account".

They should come through for you.

Resigned · Jun 16, 2010, 06:24 AM // 06:24

GOOD JOB to the admin for addressing and executing rightful actions towards the PVP manipulation or botting incidents by these players.

In order to uphold the essence of the game we need to have a playing environment that does not tolerate cheating or any other actions that show unfairness to honest players.

Thank you for everything.